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Anyone dealing with spam in this forum? 
 
robfico
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I was shocked to find so many spam posts in this forum. As the official forum for Magento, I would’ve thought the moderation and spam cleaning would’ve been up to par and on top of things. Having to skip the first 4 pages of a forum to get past spam posts is not what I would consider a good thing.

Here’s hoping Magento / ebay can afford to have a few moderators online that can keep these forums clean of all the obvious spam, so the resource can be useful once again.

Rob

 
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Skalders
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I wonder about this too. The fact that you haven\’t even gotten a reply in over a month says a lot. Official community and support is really important for new magento developers and users. I\’m seeing more and more people choosing different platforms than magento because of this. Spam on an official forum is ridiculous.

 
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serpyre
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eBay are busy trying to figure out how to push Magento to Medium Enterprise ($10-50million revenue companies) on a platform designed for Micro (sub $2million revenue using CE) and Small Enterprise ($2-10million revenue for EE). Almost everyone else are fighting working twice as hard for the same fees or the same work with half the fees, meaning help will be virtually non-existent. We are doing neither as we license technology from Large Enterprise consultants ($50million revenue companies and above) for use with Magento, makes our lives very simple so we have time to wander around the forums. The spam is stupidly annoying, and ‘partners’ are really no better than the rest, we are not holding our breath for it to change any time soon.

 
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Jack Smith
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Fact that you got a response within a month even don \ ‘t, said, a lot of things. Support and official community is very important for Magento users with the new developer. For this reason, more and more people \ ‘is seen m choosing a Magento’s platform of a different me. Spam, interesting the official forum.

http://www.hitechito.com

 
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Skalders
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serpyre - 02 December 2013 12:33 PM

eBay are busy trying to figure out how to push Magento to Medium Enterprise ($10-50million revenue companies) on a platform designed for Micro (sub $2million revenue using CE) and Small Enterprise ($2-10million revenue for EE). Almost everyone else are fighting working twice as hard for the same fees or the same work with half the fees, meaning help will be virtually non-existent. We are doing neither as we license technology from Large Enterprise consultants ($50million revenue companies and above) for use with Magento, makes our lives very simple so we have time to wander around the forums. The spam is stupidly annoying, and ‘partners’ are really no better than the rest, we are not holding our breath for it to change any time soon.

Is ebay going to ditch the micro enterprise then? the community edition? And is there ever coming a CE 2.0? It was announced more than 2 years ago. I’m just learning magento and a few other open source carts but I’m feeling more and more that magento seems to be on the decline for non enterprise webshops.

The spam seems te be cleaned up for the moment though. Here’s hoping they’re adding in a better way of spam prevention than the default captcha.

 
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serpyre
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Not that we know of, the problem is that in reality they want to pitch EE to Medium Enterprise which is currently the market of Hybris and Demandware (although this is SaaS). Obviously they are trying to ramp up given the acquisition so we would hope things start to move, but enterprise companies work slowly, very slowly, they have 7year software implementation/upgrade cycles.

Magento 2.0 will be an attempt to move the code base to Medium Enterprise, that is their fundamental issue and where they will currently hit a wall, the Magento architecture is not designed for it. For that you need architecture experience in Large Enterprise (SAP, ATG, WebSphere, Tibco), programming knowledge to a low level (Magento is a technical product), and business knowledge to understand functional processes such as finance - supplier onboarding - pricing - product management, while also understanding external factors such as Google ranking and marketing.

We only know one company who have all these and who have made Magento act like a large company solution such as Saks, Net-A-Porter, when something looks simple but provides the same functionality as an enterprise company on an out-of-class platform, it is rather special.

The reason eBay want to move to this is that revenue:effort is 5:1 or 10:1 for enterprise companies, for other businesses it used to be 1:1, however since the past year it has moved 0.5:1 or 1:2 (depending on how hard you work). Next year it will move 0.5:2, half the revenue for double the effort. If you do not have an enterprise level architecture behind you the revenue:effort will be negative and progressively become worse. Hence why we license the technology that sits on top of Magento that moves it to a positive revenue:effort model.

You have a 3yr cycle with a Magento implementation so no need to worry about a 1.8CE implementation, it is actually very good for national sites out of the box. An example of all the factors above, with a single entry that takes a couple of seconds to make “PCT|10|Clothing|Gant|2013-12-12 00:00:00|2013-12-14 23:59” all prices for Gant clothing products are reduced by 10% for 2days only, and automatically reverts back to the original price when finished. Either you need to have a large number of pricing specialists entering data, perform data loads on a continuous basis, or very advanced technology to manage the pricing scheme, the combination of non-enterprise companies and Magento do not provide this.

The negative revenue:effort is also the reason the spam is coming not just externally but also from partners and service providers, expect it to double again next year as the revenue:effort model moves even further to the negative. There will be a few types of sites that will bypass this, primarily niche based, most others will be caught in it one way or another to a greater or lesser extent.

 
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Skalders
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Thanks for the explanation serpyre, the information certainly clears some things up. Where do you get your info? is there any official word on these things?

In understand they want other segments of the e-commerce market. But it seems that, with ebay’s budget, they could put a seperate team on the community edition which currently has a market share of about 26%. It would be a shame to lose part of the micro market just because they focus on enterprise. It seems to me that if Magento had regular bigger upgrades it would have a bigger share and eventually make it about the only choice for non enterprise companies, which is in an enormous boom at the moment. Instead, other platforms like opencart and prestashop are gaining traction (even if they still can’t really be compared to magento, yet)

A bigger seperation between the CE and EE might be a viable idea. Currently everyone of the developers seem to be focused on the EE shift as you said, in development as well as in support. Even though magento CE’s userbase is still growing the 2-3 years of silence is definitely causing a shift. A lot of bigger web companies here (belgium) tell me magento is not worth investing in (hiring magento developers or training them) because of it.

Do you have a prediction for magento CE v2 release date? I can’t find a lot of official news on it. the github gets updated regularly though.
And do you really think it’s worth learning magento v 1.x development (and using it) at this time? It seems like v2 will be very different. The change in development, and especially upgrading v 1.x to v2 seems it’s going to be pretty difficult and not worth the hassle if you have a lot of clients using magento.

 
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serpyre
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We always like Belgium, very nice. This comes from multi-national consultants who perform the architecture for the largest companies but also have experience of Magento to SAP among other platforms and use combined business/technical knowledge for solutions.

That’s a lot of questions, let’s see if we can’t answer some of them.

It seems to me that if Magento had regular bigger upgrades it would have a bigger share

It will have a bigger share in the Micro Enterprise and a smaller share in large markets, enterprise companies expect slow rollouts due to the way they are sturctured. You can expect going forward eBay will look for a larger market share in Small to Medium Enterprise at the cost of Micro. It goes like this Micro 6-9mth rollouts, Small 12-18mth rollouts, Medium 2-3yr rollouts and Large Enterprise 5-7yr rollouts.

Instead, other platforms like opencart and prestashop are gaining traction

Only in the niche markets and national sites ($10s to low $100s thousands revenue per year) and we prefer WooCommerce for these as it is quicker and more content focused, Magento is the only real choice for international class (multi-language, local currency checkouts) but it does not do it very well as it places the burden on business resource rather than technical for daily maintenance. The problem is that eCommerce is moving to pure niche -or- enterprise class sites, there will not be much in-between in the years to come, Google are helping with that one.

A lot of bigger web companies here (belgium) tell me magento is not worth investing in (hiring magento developers or training them) because of it.

Then they are missing the growth from Micro to Small Enterprise, some will make it, most will not, but if you are not there you will only have a very limited number of companies who can afford Hybris, Demandware so you with have a harder fight. It is best to have your hands in all the markets, they will miss out on the cross market transition.

Do you have a prediction for magento CE v2 release date

No, there are too many factors which we would expect to be quite fluid. If it is slow (one or two years) then they are likely rebuilding the architecture for Medium Enterprise, if it is short (next year) then they will be releasing an evolutionary version which will not fix the underlying issues and therefore will basically be no different to 1.x.

And do you really think it\’s worth learning magento v 1.x development

Yes and no, yes as if Magento 2.0 is released soon it cannot be fundamentally different to 1.x, if it is slower then you will have lost 1-2yrs. No if you do not have any specifc projects in mind you might as well wait and see. For upgrades you would perform a migration, fresh 2.0 install and copy orders, products over, you would not want to upgrade over the top, but you would also want to do it this way with a larger 1.x upgrade.

There is an incredible amount of mis-information floating around at the moment, and people are placing their knowledge (quantitative) as fact not taking in to account business size, market dynamics, Google ranking, and other factors (qualitative). These qualitative factors are the difference between success and failure when you are trying to move a positive revenue:effort model, and rather difficult to put on paper as it is the sum of the parts.

If you want the perfect example of the lack of understanding of qualitative aspects you should read this
Are Magento Full Page Cache Extension worth it?.

 
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serpyre
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We have been thinking about this a bit more, all the service providers are spamming the forums like there is no tomorrow, there are virtually no retailers participating in the forums, some have moved over to Stack Exchange but that is a technical forum so if you put any business rationale you will be flamed instantly, LinkedIn is another service provider spamming tool.

Hybris which is the next level from Magento has been bought by SAP, this is good for the people we work with who are SAP consultants with eCommerce, but the current Hybris service providers will not have the top-down experience to understand what happens next and the market is very small.

Magento is going through a huge transition and we understand quite a few of the original members have left, if something does not change soon then the downward cycle will continue. If you are a service provider then clients will shy away however Magento does have the best infrastructure and themes for a professional site. Regardless of what happens next you will get 3yrs out of the current version before you need to change, the key will be to implement in days to weeks with as few technical changes as possible instead of months that most providers take. Whether you can sell that to clients is another matter entirely.

 
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Christinale
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I saw a lot of Vietnamese topic............ Admin should do something to clean out it. I make our forum looks ugly.

 
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serpyre
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It is now out of control, people like ziuziu, ShopMages, Brainvire under their multiple guises spamming the forums like crazy, eBay could not care less, StackExchange is too technical for business minded retailers, and LinkedIn is useless. We did consider setting up a business orientated Magento forum but we are too busy, so it looks like it is everyone for themselves.

 
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srmobile
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I think its been out of control for a while now. Thanks for your explanation serpyre, with the results (or lack there of) we are seeing and your explanation everything is making much more sense.

Very disappointing to say the least, this forum was once a great tool now I find it a waste of time. It`s extremely deflating to come with a question or to assist someone only to find a post buried beneath pages of obvious spam.

I have half a mind to setup an alternative forum, but the problem is that it would take away from concentrating on my own web shop.........

SR

 
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elfling
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Feel free to make me a moderator and I’ll blitz these spam posts

smile

 
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enchant
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The fact that they appear to have abandoned the forums gives me pause about the software.  Might they simply abandon it as well.  Before I commit to magento, I think I’ll check out a few options.

 
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Rich Cleverley
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Us moderators are volunteers so do try to clean up when we can but obviously have to fit it around our work commitments too.

 
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beeplogic
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For those of you looking for an alternative to the forums and have non-technical questions please consider joining our sub reddit: /r/magento. The community is able to (mostly) self moderate by voting down spam links and teaching the auto moderator bot new rules.

 
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