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Useless for UK so far. 
 
Lee Nugent
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Hi Darren,

I moved from OsCommerce because to be honest I didn’t feel happy with the code.  By the time you have rewritten code or added contributions to tailor the site to fit your requirements and most of the time the contributions are from people who lets face it are possibly not the worlds best programmers; the whole site begins to feel very unstable.

I lost faith in finishing my site due to the amount of bugs and I looked around for an alternative ecommerce solution because the other option was to start again with a clean OsCommerce build.  I stumbled across Magento and I couldn’t be more excited now about rebuilding my shop.

I understand that there are issues, my true profession is as a Microsoft Engineer (shop is new venture with my wife). I work for a large organisation and I can tell you for a fact that there will always be issues, just look at Vista?!? and thats Microsoft!.  Ok yes I was planning to implement Credit Card payments on my site and I may have to change my plans now or wait for an update but I’m prepared to do that because compared to OsCommerce Magento is superb.  Its potential is outstanding and there appears to be some very talented people developing it.  This is only my situation and I truly understand that some sites are people’s livelyhoods and without sufficent functionaliy they may have to resort back to the likes of OsCommerce.

I cannot thank the Magento team enough and I’m sure they will continue developing for other countries.

 
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Darren Grant
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You are essentially saying the same thing that Magneto holds a lot of promise but as yet you can’t easily get a full working shopping cart on-line straight away as it is missing some functionality.

osCommerce is poorly designed in comparison but it has been around a long time so all the contributions exist already to get a basic site up and running and working for the UK. Magento on the other hand is so new that you are going to have to wait for a later version or community contributions if you don’t have the necessary ability to modify it yourself.

 
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maxl23
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Hi

I’m a little confused by this… I am at the stage where I want to set up a payment gateway and I was going to go with paypal direct/express (UK).... Is this straight forward to do via the dashboard like the demo here:

http://www.magentocommerce.com/knowledge-base/entry/how-do-i-set-up-payment-gateways-payflow-authorizenet

Or am I wasting my time??

Cheers Max

 
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projekt11
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So lets see some of these UK stores then… ‘-)

 
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Craig Owen
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So everyone’s argued whether Magento is ready for use in the UK… and it appears that the only two routes are to use paypal or to use the manual card details collection screen.

I need to use the manual card details collection screen, but this means, as the thread started I need the CVV to be able to type it into my PDQ.

I’ve programmed for years in php, but haven’t got a clue where to start to add the CVV field. I easily did it in OsCommerce.

Can anyone please point me in the right direction so that I can finish my migration from OSC - my products are loaded, categories configured etc… but I can’t go live until people can pay me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Craig

 
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Darren Grant
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I’m sure it must be hard for the Magento team to get so much criticism after working so hard on the project. We are really a difficult bunch to please !

Basically the biggest problem that Magento has right now that applies to all users is the complete lack of documentation and is the first thing that needs fixing. There is a new book coming out soon http://www.magentocommerce.com/blog/comments/phparchitects-guide-to-programming-with-magento/ that may be some help in getting to better understand Magento. But before embarking on adding new features the team needs to produce a basic outline of what each function is. I really hope this is what they are working on as if it is left without basic documentation it doesn’t matter how technically brilliant it is it will be its downfall if people simply can not use it.

Magento 1.0 is simply not ready for most UK users out of the box. You will either have to start climbing the steep learning curve to try and make the modifications yourself or wait for the next release or community built ad-ons. Unless you are willing to sign up to Google/PayPal and use that as your only payment method for credit cards and you don’t have to account for VAT in the EU.

As I see it currently there are a number of hurdles that need to be overcome when setting up a UK store.

The first but easiest to address is there isn’t yet an official UK locale so despite selecting UK at the installation your store will be in American rather than English. You will either have to wait for the official translation, use one of the unofficial contributions or make the changes to the locale files yourself. This is relatively straightforward as it is just a bunch of text files that have a list of original words and translated words.

The second is that you are limited in the payment methods you can use. The stored credit card module is extremely basic and really doesn’t have the features necessary to be useful to anyone really. It stores the whole card number in the database, a really bad idea from a security standpoint. By default it can not be configured for cards other than 3 US cards provided. It does not have the option to collect issue numbers for debit cards or the CVV number. It is possible to modify this module yourself apparently but I haven’t had any success and haven’t seen any sign of any other users having successfully done this in the forums. So I think really this payment module could do with further development so that ideally it will have the option of collection the CVV and that part of the card number and CVV number are e-mailed to the store admin so that a compromised server does not contain enough information to be useful. So you are currently limited to using Google or PayPal or possibly Protx form (Not Direct) if you are willing to give the beta module a shot.

The third is that there seems to be problems setting up shipping for use in the UK, I cant honestly say how easy this is to rectify as by this time I got totally peeved a nuked my magento database in despair.

The fourth is Tax issues, if you are VAT registered and run a consumer site you are required to display all prices including UK VAT but have to provide non VAT to places like the channel islands. It seems Magento does not handle VAT properly on postage if you include VAT in your display prices. It seems that Tax is a problem for a significant proportion of users so hopefully this will be addressed in the next release. It is not something I would suggest you try and fix yourself as this is a core part of Magento that needs to be updated as part of the core software.

I decided to leave well alone for the next 6 months and then I’ll take another look to see if the situation had changed so osCommerce will continue to serve my needs for the next 6 months at least. I found osCommerce to be pretty basic and lacking in many ways but I did manage to get it working and it has been helping me earn my living for 5 years now. I found osCommerce very simple to modify for an ammeter programmer like me so I easily added things like CVV capture and even a UK postcode validator that makes sure customers put valid UK post codes in. Megento requires a completely different mindset for editing and due to the vast size of it and the complexity I would say it is well beyond the average person who can tinker with PHP. It really requires a keen programmer to understand it. What attracts me to magneto is simply osCommerce is no pretty old and lacking in many new features shoppers expect of a modern shopping cart. Development seems to have stalled with osCommerce and the forks like ZenCart don’t seem to be making significant progress either. The opportunity is there for a new cart built on new standards to become the de-facto standard. Magento seemed like it could be that, I was especially enthusiastic by the apparent brilliant communication during the development. But once released (prematurely in my opinion) the communication has disappeared especially when it comes to the documentation. The team need to take it on the chin and get some good documentation out and fix the many things that have been highlighted to them and maybe magento 1.2 will be everything we hoped for.

 
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leeaston
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Darren Grant - 23 April 2008 02:23 PM

I decided to leave well alone for the next 6 months and then I’ll take another look to see if the situation has changed…

Yep me as-well, unless you’re a out and out developer then Magento isn’t ready for the UK/European market.

 
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gadgetplay
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I have to say, Magento looks awesome.

I currently have a store using CubeCart which costs $200 and has a lack of features, has bugs, no roadmap and just frustrates me.

I came across Magento on Facebook actually when I searched ‘ecommerce’. I’m so glad I did!!

Well, I am a UK user and hope to open my 2nd store soon, and already at Magento’s early stages of 1.0 I am very impressed and confident that in a couple of months it will be suitable for use.

The roadmap of upcoming features looks impressive! Thanks to the Magento team at Varien for putting this software together!

 
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sandfox
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Hi Darren!

I’ve made the effort to read all the posts in this thread including the long ones from you. For a minute there I thought you were just trying to discourage everyone from dumping osCommerce for Magento. Now I believe you are genuinely just frustrated and I must say I disagree with you on the payment modules issue.

How did you figure PayPal was for amateurs? It is simply more flexible than Protx in the way that you can accept Credit Cards even if you are not a merchant. That is a big plus and you are making it into a negative. Why? As soon as you go for Payments Pro with PayPal, your customers won’t even know Paypal is processing the payment. They just enter their card info without being re-directed anywhere and that’s it. You even pay a monthly fee just as you would have to pay with Protx.

Your problem with the language has been sorted now I believe. I saw a UK language pack here somewhere, so that one is out of the way too.

I’ am not sure about the shipping modules, as I haven’t gotten that far with Magento yet, but there must be some workarounds. Simply because Magento is already being used in other European countries and I haven’t read about shipping module problems from users there.

All in all I think your only real problem is the change. I am still using osC myself and I will be switching when I’m ready. I am excited about Magento just like you are, but you shouldn’t be forsaking it right in it’s early days and you cannot force it either. You just have to accept that this cart is completely different from what you are used to and that can only be a good thing. Just look what happened to osC. Your earlier comparison to it is quite frankly wrong. People have been moaning about osC and waited patiently for years now. Not much has changed though. You should give Magento a chance to develop before you judge it and before you compare its negatives to the sorry story osC has become. Patience is the word.

 
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Darren Grant
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Well it looks like good progress is being made, a good start has been made on the documentation that should help people enormously. 1.1 looks like it might address the failings in Euro Tax in the 1.0 version and adds some very useful features such as Bundles.

Hopefully by 1.2 there will be contributions for Royal Mail shipping that accounts for their complicated charging scheme and for Protx Server and Direct. Then UK users should be able to get a store up and running without any PHP programming soon.

In response to sandfox I am not forsaking magento as you put it, if you read my posts I have been saying simply that magento as it stands now is not ready for a typical UK user without PHP programming and that anyone who thinks they can just install it and get it working is wasting their time. My advise has been that Magento has huge potential but unless you are an experienced hacker you are better off leaving it for a few months and come back when the issues have been fixed. The two biggest problems are already being addressed the documentation and Tax issues.

 
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shaun
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Darren Grant - 03 June 2008 05:08 PM

Hopefully by 1.2 there will be contributions for Royal Mail shipping that accounts for their complicated charging scheme and for Protx Server and Direct.

Protx Direct is available already.

http://www.magentocommerce.com/extension/163/protx-direct-payment-module

 
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golles
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Darren Grant - 03 June 2008 05:08 PM

Well it looks like good progress is being made, a good start has been made on the documentation that should help people enormously. 1.1 looks like it might address the failings in Euro Tax in the 1.0 version and adds some very useful features such as Bundles.

Hopefully by 1.2 there will be contributions for Royal Mail shipping that accounts for their complicated charging scheme and for Protx Server and Direct. Then UK users should be able to get a store up and running without any PHP programming soon.

In response to sandfox I am not forsaking magento as you put it, if you read my posts I have been saying simply that magento as it stands now is not ready for a typical UK user without PHP programming and that anyone who thinks they can just install it and get it working is wasting their time. My advise has been that Magento has huge potential but unless you are an experienced hacker you are better off leaving it for a few months and come back when the issues have been fixed. The two biggest problems are already being addressed the documentation and Tax issues.

Tax issues - there are none for a uk store we have UK tax working fine - I agree there are for European stores
Protx form & direct are complete - take a look at connect
Locale - this is an open source project - change the locale - it is a spreadsheet just change what you need

 
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Darren Grant
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golles - 06 June 2008 07:09 AM


Tax issues - there are none for a uk store we have UK tax working fine - I agree there are for European stores

I take it then that you don’t ship your products to the channel islands where VAT is not charged and therefore has to be recorded as zero VAT ?

golles - 06 June 2008 07:09 AM

Locale - this is an open source project - change the locale - it is a spreadsheet just change what you need.

Oh some people just don’t get it, the locale thing I said already is simple BUT…
The installer lets you select a UK locale so therefore the system should install a UK locale not US when UK is selected or alternatively not allow locales to be selected that are not installed by the main installer so the user has to install it themselves afterward. This behavior will throw people. Imagine ordering a blue car and having a red one delivered and the dealer said thats OK take it to a paint shop they will paint it blue. Or imagine saving a file to your drive thinking it was saved because no error was given only to find out later it wasn’t saved at all because the save module wasn’t installed in the OS.

Some people just don’t like it when someone points out where something could do with improving. At least the Magneto team are taking on board feedback and addressing the problems but some people replying to these threads seem to want to say I’m alright so wheres your problem.

 
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Darren Grant
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shaun - 04 June 2008 06:00 AM

Protx Direct is available already.

http://www.magentocommerce.com/extension/163/protx-direct-payment-module

Looks like another one that can be ticked off the list, won’t be long now before all the pieces will come together.

 
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golles
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Darren Grant - 06 June 2008 02:38 PM

Some people just don’t like it when someone points out where something could do with improving. At least the Magneto team are taking on board feedback and addressing the problems but some people replying to these threads seem to want to say I’m alright so wheres your problem.

NOT so.

I was simplying pointing out this is not a difficult thing to change. Thats all.

I fully agree with you in pointing out the issues - we have pointed out many.

I just think we should be a bit more positive about what we have got with this system rather than what we haven’t got.

It is the title of the post that makes my point. Magento is NOT useless for the UK - there are a small amount of relatively small issues, at least 90% of which can be ironed out with a few changes. I agree it is not ideal. But it certainly is not useless.

Darren Grant - 06 June 2008 02:38 PM


Oh some people just don’t get it, the locale thing I said already is simple BUT…
The installer lets you select a UK locale so therefore the system should install a UK locale not US when UK is selected or alternatively not allow locales to be selected that are not installed by the main installer so the user has to install it themselves afterward. This behavior will throw people. Imagine ordering a blue car and having a red one delivered and the dealer said thats OK take it to a paint shop they will paint it blue. Or imagine saving a file to your drive thinking it was saved because no error was given only to find out later it wasn’t saved at all because the save module wasn’t installed in the OS.

We do get it. But it is a simple job to change.

At the end of the day regardless of the disagreements or differences of opinion on this forum, it should be a place of positive help, encouragment and request for help and advice.

I think your points are very valid - and I agree with many of them. BUT there are things that can be done. Agreed it may not be appropriate for everyone to get in and change the code but that is what open source is all about. You either help change (not rely on the company behind the product for 100% of all the features) or wait for those changes to appear throught the community or via the next releases.

Anyway lets move on from this one - if our dev team can come up with a tax workaround for the channel islands then I will drop you a note. At the moment we are not shipping outside the mainland on the one magento store we have (although it will be a required on the other stores we are migrating to magento within the next 60 days).

 
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