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Magento going commercial
 
indigo
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I think that a lot of people, and myself personally, were hoping that the Varien business model was based on the WordPress business model.

WordPress.org is the open source software while WordPress.com is the for pay service that installs and maintains the software for thousands of users. The software itself is the same in either case, identical features whether if you download it and install it yourself or have WordPress.com do it. This way the WordPress energy is all behind ONE product, their attention is not divided, and everyone is happy.

Automattic, the company that makes WordPress has been remarkably successful with this model. They’ve made a boatload of money and they took over the market from MoveableType in the process.

I was hoping, and apparently a whole lot of other peple were as well, that Varien would be to Magento as WP.org is to WP.com.
In fact this business model makes even more sense for e-commerce software than it does for blogging software, because the installation and maintenance issues are more complex, Varien could charge more!

But considering Varien did not chose a CopyLeft style license should have indicated to us that eventually they would take it commercial.
But it’s not yet too late! C’mon Magento, we love the product but don’t make the same mistake MoveableType did smile

 
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ShopGuy
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Thank you for your comment Roy. I enjoyed reading your response and hope to see Magento continue to succeed.

 
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ogweewee
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They need us guinea pigs to test out their product, so I will take the naive approach and believe they will still release product for the open source.
Hmmm I wonder what version $8,900 gives you?

I’m so pissed that Gift Cards will not be release to us as per the comparative sheet. What kind of crap is that?

 
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ShopGuy
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ogweewee - 17 April 2009 01:26 PM

They need us guinea pigs to test out their product, so I will take the naive approach and believe they will still release product for the open source.
Hmmm I wonder what version $8,900 gives you?

I’m so pissed that Gift Cards will not be release to us as per the comparative sheet. What kind of crap is that?

The main advantage of the enterprise is the support and warranties. That is really probably $8000 of the price tag if not more.

 
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TGM
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TGM, Please read my post before you criticise it.
I have had to act anonymously to avoid a direct bid from Varien to my offices or my clients’.
This is a community issue, and I do not wish to be involved in a personal dispute with Varien!

Please accept my apology. I did read your post but missed a few lines.

None of our employees work for free (I wish that was different but I’ve been unable to convince them thus far).

This is very supring to me. I am a graphics designer and have worked with a few open sorce item such as phpbb and they have not had problem finder people who will work free. I am sure that out the 80,000 odd members there are a few who are very good and will work for free. I am a magento fan and if working for free will help then I will offer my services as a forum moderator or something that will help.

 
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jellybabys
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@Roy

“ Let’s push forward and work together to make this project a stunning success”

For who? us or YOU!!!

“None of our employees work for free (I wish that was different but I’ve been unable to convince them thus far).”

All the programmers here over the past 2 years have worked for free to make YOUR project a success are you going to give them all a job, or shares when you go on the open market? didn’t think so!

@shopguy & pss7

If you kiss harder and swollow more Im sure you will both get hired.

Let face it why on this earth would Magento/Roy release anything else other than crap to us, if he gave us the goods then the people paying the $8400 would be here moaning, I would! so like it or lump it this so call free source is dead, what a shame.

Just to clear something up before the tossers start trying to defend magento, I have a very success business with over 3000 unique visitors (non paid for) per day and get one or two sales, I have the software saved and (without sounding a total arsehole) can afford to pay for updates and modules, but what really gets under my skin is that magento took advantage of good programmers that was willing to give something to the community and magento to find bugs and improve the software ( and to be totally honest is was crap two years ago) with the outlook that this could only get better for everyone, so a win win for everyone, and all have been fu-cked over by magento, and I really hope you can sue magento/roy for your lost of time as his company is the only ones that are making real money and will continue too.

If I was a programmer I would not continue to give your free help till this is much more transparent.

I’m going to get barred for this so good luck all… smile

 
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TGM
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Let face it why on this earth would Magento/Roy release anything else other than crap to us, if he gave us the goods then the people paying the $8400 would be here moaning, I would! so like it or lump it this so call free source is dead, what a shame.

No they would not, if some insane people did pay $8400 for the Enterprise version in its current state, they would be to stupid to use a computer.

 
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Spearbox Media Ltd
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Credit crunch. smile

 
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pauljosephson
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Wow! Some people are really angry :( about this situation.  I get some if it but others need to take a anger management class or drink a few pints.  Although, I too am disappointed about not seeing the gift cards and customer credit in the community edition I know that it will make it down to the CE some day (hopefully sooner than later) if not we have a lot of good programmers that can band together.  Perhaps that is what we should do and have a community meeting to decide what we would like to add to the system and work as a group to provide it for our own use as well as provide it to the rest of community (including our host Varien)

But, what I find fascinating is people have no idea how cheap 8900 dollars is for a enterprise package.  I have worked at and with some large companies over the years and that is less than a weekly internet costs or even the monthly donut costs.  8900 is chump change for what you are getting.  Large entities are more concerned about the warranty and guarantee (I don’t think the gc and special sales is going win them over Roy, but all the other items of protecting the client will).  Varien as Roy stated is a business and must pay the talent that provides much of what enjoy everyday (although I still argue to this day Magento is over engineered smile ).  I also don’t discount how important we are and I know Varien does not either.  Open Source models live and die because of the community many have ignored the very community they created and now are only a shell of what they truly could have been.  By the way don’t use Joomla as an example because they have become in some ways more controlled by a select few rather than the community just as Mambo was doing before the split.

Don’t forget people PHP itself, although not open source, provides many items free but also provides a little extra for those willing to pay (in some cases a lot more than the even a small firm like mine can afford).  SugarCRM does this, as do many other models that have an OS edition.  The point being is take a breath see what they do in the coming weeks (maybe months) than we can decide the path that best serves our interests.  I know (hope) that Varien does follow through.

Oh, my wish list still hasn’t changed from what it was prior to the EE announcement:  Developer documentation, gift certificates, speed increases, developer documentation (oh, did I already say that smile , membership management, and once again documentation for the developer )

PJ
( I see no reason to talk forking the project at this point. )

 
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Unirgy
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PJ - 17 April 2009 04:28 PM

Don’t forget people PHP itself, although not open source, provides many items free but also provides a little extra for those willing to pay (in some cases a lot more than the even a small firm like mine can afford).

A bit off topic, but I’ve seen someone else mentioned that PHP is not open source, but can’t understand what they mean. Would you mind to expand on this?

http://www.php.net/license/

PHP 4 and PHP 5 are distributed under the PHP License v3.01, copyright (c) the PHP Group.
This is an Open Source license, certified by the Open Source Initiative.
The PHP license is a BSD-style license which does not have the “copyleft” restrictions associated with GPL.

 
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Unirgy
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@blueballs: You’ve got to understand though, it’s not always girl’s fault.

 
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pauljosephson
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OK, Blueballs I have marked your words and will check back when this so called split happens to see if you have moved on and are contributing to the new system.  I highly doubt it will happen soon.  Most people that are talented in this area would rather stick it out here (a few may wander off) but what I know from the people that keep talking fork now they are the same people for the most part that want it their way and bunch a people like that in a room never gets anything done at least not in the long run as one or two become the dominant individuals that drive the project and focus on their interests. 

Why waste time forking?  If you want an item so bad get some members together and do it yourselves and contribute back to community here.

 
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pauljosephson
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PHP is just another business model but one we all seem to take for granted as users not know that it too is a money oriented business.  It similar that is a simple tiered approach.  Free at the low end with Zend expecting larger entities with deeper pockets and/or higher requirements to contribute financially.  In return that get additional features and additional guarantees.  I am going to reiterate this for anybody that has never worked for a larger company guarantee is the most important word to them.  They will pay for the gurantee of service you will provide (guarantee via additional security, warranty of service, product compliance, etc..).  I wonder how many people have paid Varien for even basic support (as we did).

Getting back to Zend/PHP.  For example look at the Zend Server free and great for basic development needs but to get some of the features that may be wanted by higher end purposes you must throw them some coin.  I think people assume that EE will take away from the providing from the community I think places that have a large community and provide a basic version for users for free are able to do so by providing services to those that can pay to support the project while making them a profit. 

After reading every article previous to this one I can see that most people just don’t get how much energy goes into supporting this project through development, community support (even if it has been bad in the forums) by Varien.  I am not fearful of EE taking the lion share of time (I expect it will take a great deal after all it is a business) but, I also know that (once again using PHP and SugarCRM has examples of providing EE editions and or services) by developing and providing such allows us get more bang for the CE edition. 

Forking rarely works (Joomla and ZenCart is a rare cases) even the ones that do become specialized and controlled by an even smaller community of users.

PJ

 
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Michael Cleef
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PJ - 17 April 2009 05:19 PM

Forking rarely works (Joomla and ZenCart is a rare cases) even the ones that do become specialized and controlled by an even smaller community of users.

And what would be the matter of a smaller, more focused and caring community?

I think that Varien needs to invest more time in the community that spent hours helping them, for nothing but a kick in the nuts, and a half-baked piece of shit that they call the community edition. Lets face it, we always knew that Varien would take magento commercial, we just didn’t expect them to take the common, and somewhat necessary features of e-commerce down with them…

 
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cloudone
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I believe the biggest problem with the critics here is the fear that there would be no additional features added to Magento in the future as all the features will only be available in EE to lure the potential customers who can afford it. And it’s a valid one. Gift certificate and RMA ought to belong to the community version by any standard, while I expected things like SAP integration in the EE, or support for Oracle DB, but that’s not the case.

With regards to plugin and add-on, I believe that most users prefer code to plugin. There is no guarantee that a plugin works for all versions, in face, most of the time there are delays for plugins to get updated, and sad to say, many plugins are never updated to support the latest version of Magento. Conflicts between plugins etc. So yes, it will be harmful if no additional code besides bug fixes is added to Magento.

The biggest problem for developers is still documentation, or the lack of. I do believe that it is deliberate, Varien did not release everything they have, and that makes developers hard, if not impossible write anything useful. I do hope that Varien can release their specifications and technical documentation, so that developers worldwide can participate in contributing code to the Magento project.

I thank Varien for such a terrific product, but please do consider giving the features that ought to be part of the community edition to the community.

 
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