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this product should install easily.  Why doesn’t it? 
 
frednurk
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It seems to me that there is no reason that a php / mysql based web app shouldn’t install relatively easily out of the box.  I’ve tried to install magento 3 times over the last few months, because a collaborator of mine really wants to use it.  It has never worked on any *Nix sort of machine I’ve tried it on.
I’m not going to go into the specifics, but I am very good at sysadmin.  If I need to re-compile glibc to acommodate the needs of some software I’m installing, I know how to do it.
However, it troubles me that magento asks for So much (pdo_mysql, that massive .htaccess file) and that it just plain crashes on every install attempt.  If you install phpMyAdmin or movable type or any number of lamp-esque web apps, they either work or their complaints make sense.  They also don’t require anything special: just php and mysql. 
Still, I’ve been willing to give magento a go, and given it all the privileges it asks for.  Still, it WILL NOT install.  If I’m going to invest time in learning a piece of software, the installation should either work or break for a reasonable reason.  It should not require complex downloads of additional packages from servers that aren’t always available.  It shouldn’t give me raw error output from pdo_mysql.  I don’t care if I have to compile it at the command line.
Magento just isn’t going to do it for me until it installs cleanly without asking too much of me as a sysadmin.

 
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roskolnikov
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Well then ,
You could always stay in the stone age with OS commerce etc etc.
Keep on trying dude!
maybe just replace the fancy apache setup yu got with xampp. Its easy as pie from there

 
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Michae1
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frednurk - 17 January 2008 01:02 PM

It seems to me that there is no reason that a php / mysql based web app shouldn’t install relatively easily out of the box.

Magento is in beta preview stage now.  That means that we are still working on many things, including the installation process itself. We try to solve all the installation problems that people might meet as soon as they report the issues here in the forum, or in the bug-tracker.

However, it troubles me that magento asks for So much (pdo_mysql, that massive .htaccess file) and that it just plain crashes on every install attempt.

We provide the php5-cgi binary that already has all the extensions precompiled. You can use it if you don’t want to enable pdo_mysql, or any other required php extension in your php installation.

 
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frednurk
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my point is, I’ve tried installing it on many machines (three) and they’re all pretty simply configured (nothing fancy running on them, myqsl, apache, php5) I have installed all the extra php components that magento asks for, and still it crashes.  It crashed 5 months ago, and I told my partner I didn’t have much faith in a product that had such a hard time installing on such a generic system as mine, and he said, “they’re still in beta, try it again in a few months.”
So here I am, and it still won’t install on a super basic linux system.  I have written too many e-commerce apps in my life, and I would love it if one came out that had all the features I wanted and I could push on clients, but it should install easily and install easily on a very generic system especially.
I don’t have a specific log of problems, because I tried it on my mac, I tried it on my fedora box and I tried it on my redhat box.  They all crashed and all did it in such a way that my immediate thought was, “I’m not going to waste a lot of time checking this product out if I’m going to have to wade through all of these different components that are breaking left and right.”
I’m not trying to be mean, I just want you to know that the lack of a decent install process has turned me away from trying your stuff, and I bet there are plenty of other sys-admins / developers like me who don’t have time to debug the install to see if they want to use something.  I’m willing to put up with a certain number of odd things in the implementation of software, but if I can’t easily get the software on my computer, I’m going to give up trying.  I really appreciate the open source community, and I wish someone would come along and make a nice e-commerce platform so I didn’t have to keep building them from the ground up, but I’ve now been convinced that this isn’t it.

 
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roskolnikov
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Frednurk,

Sounds like hell my friend.
However Varien does have a disclaimer - its a Beta.
The software is so sweet. Hope you hang on till the stable comes out. You’d love yourself for it.

Cheers

 
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YoavKutner
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frednurk - We recently called on the Magento community to help with testing our installation process on different environments. We had great response and hope to improve greatly on the installation as the product matures. We closed our alpha testers list for now but if you want to join this team please PM me so that we can arrange for one of our developers to help you with the installation process so that we can learn where the problem are.

Thanks

yoav

 
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santibm
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Hi Fred!

It’s shocking to read that you already decided not to use Magento, what I mean with this is that of course you might be getting errors on the installation of Magento, but we all know is still in a developement stage… And actually is doing great to be on a developement stage, i’m testing it live and works fine until the checkout and some other minor points that I’m about to post to Bug tracker as it’s there for that!

I’ve been setting up ecommerce in Spain for three years now, using everything, xcart, zencart, oscommerce, own programmed carts, and until this moment i hadn’t found anything with the quality of Magento… I keep doing research on new options available from the Open Source world and I can tell you something for sure. Magento is the best open source ecommerce software i’ve seen until now and of course, it might not have an easy installation, but once you install it… Have you seen thae administration side!? Have you compared this part with other open sources out there? How easy to navigate and use the other ecommerce opensource solutions is?!

As a personal comment, I don’t think you’ll find anything better around, just look at how the company is managing the product, did you realize how many people is behind this idea!? Have you ever seen so many documentation, screencasts and others for any other Open Source project? Well there is one, is called typo3, but unluckily is not an ecommerce solution, but a perfect solution for corporate sites…

PD: If you find something viable as an ecommerce open source solution please let me know!

Regards,
Santi.

 
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sticky
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frednurk - 17 January 2008 01:02 PM

It seems to me that there is no reason that a php / mysql based web app shouldn’t install relatively easily out of the box.  I’ve tried to install magento 3 times over the last few months, because a collaborator of mine really wants to use it.  It has never worked on any *Nix sort of machine I’ve tried it on.

I’m sorry to hear you’re having so many problems getting Magento up and running but it’s not normally that difficult.

I’ve done 3 installs over the last few months also and they were all pretty straightforward. 2 were on different webhosts and the last install is running locally on my Mac using MAMP.

What are you doing to Magento?? hehe wink

 
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Mark_Kimsal
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frednurk - 17 January 2008 01:02 PM

Magento just isn’t going to do it for me until it installs cleanly without asking too much of me as a sysadmin.

* Dude, get a real linux distro.
* Quit compiling everything yourself.
* All PHP5 apps will require this stuff in the future.

Why is it that all sysadmins do is complain about installing stuff, while developers just install stuff w/o complaining about it?  I never figured that one out.  Also, seems to be a lot of gentoo users who complain the most about installing stuff.

--==EDIT==--
I hope I’m getting my point across to other people reading this thread very clearly.  Magento’s requirements are *not* exotic in any way.  Most, if not all, the PHP extensions are enabled by default, or are available by default in most Linux distros.  And lastly, PHP extensions are not to be considered complicated or exotic setups for any situation, it takes about 10 minutes to install any PHP extension on any system*.  Don’t be fooled.  If your sysadmin or hosts complains about installing any PHP extension, get a new sysadmin or host.

* (any system worth developing on)

 
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roskolnikov
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Why is it that all sysadmins do is complain about installing stuff, while developers just install stuff w/o complaining about it?

Do you know this for a fact? ......stop stereotyping man.. but it was awful nice of you to offer frednurk the PM and all. But remember this is the place to air your personal experiences on magento .

I think when someone takes the wrong approach to a problem then everything goes wrong from that point on. I think this is the case in frednurk’s case. I must agree that the install has been child’s play for me. However i suck at mathematics.! smile we can’t know it all…

My point is : its not what you say just how you say it. Lets keep these forums open and warm so everyone can embrace magento.

I hope frednurk takes you up on your excellent offer and I’ll be asking you for help on customization etc

Peace

 
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coeus
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Mark_Kimsal - 18 January 2008 05:17 AM


I hope I’m getting my point across to other people reading this thread very clearly.  Magento’s requirements are *not* exotic in any way.  Most, if not all, the PHP extensions are enabled by default, or are available by default in most Linux distros.  And lastly, PHP extensions are not to be considered complicated or exotic setups for any situation, it takes about 10 minutes to install any PHP extension on any system*.  Don’t be fooled.  If your sysadmin or hosts complains about installing any PHP extension, get a new sysadmin or host.

* (any system worth developing on)

His post doesn’t suggest that his problem has anything to do with missing an extension. The Magento installer clearly lets you know if an extension is missing or not. His problem is a problem many users on this forum are having. It’s the dreaded PDO error dump on step 3. I have also tried everything from using the DLL file suggested on this forum to uncommenting the PDO::MYSQL_ATTR_USE_BUFFERED_QUERY setting. I’ve increased memory limits, increased db execution times in the my.ini settings, etc. But I always get the PDO error dumb. I am not a sysadmin, I’m a developer.

However, I recognize that this is still beta and have faith that the magento team will address the installation problems in the next release

 
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Ross
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The Magento system has higher requirements than a lot of existing LAMP software because it is a new development that is trying to take advantage of current software.  The result is better code and more functionality.  I think it’s a good thing.

My experience with installing Magento has been fairly straightforward: once I had the requirements met it installed without any problems.

I think there seems to be 2 common types of experiences installing Magento:
1. Requirements met: trouble-free installation
2. Requirements not quite met: frustrating installation attempts with all kinds of errors.

Also, I share the opinion that compiling from source is more trouble than it is worth.  Most distros these days are well packaged and come with pretty much anything you could want, so why spend time building from source (I gave up compiling everything 10 years ago).

 
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SimpleHelixcom
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You guys have to understand that Magento is built on top of Zend Framework.
Zend Framework itself is a new framework for PHP 5 and it looks like it will be the standard for long time to come.

Magento just seems to be one of the first open source software to utillize the Zend Framework.

PHP 4 is now End of Life, and PHP 5 is the new standard for PHP.

We will keep seeing more applications like this that will require these requirements Magento does so do not be alarmed just because Magento is not working on your hosting environment.

Sooner or later, the hosting companies will slowly but surely adapt to the latest Zend Framework / Magento requirements.

 
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kameko.rouge
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coeus - 18 January 2008 10:10 AM

Mark_Kimsal - 18 January 2008 05:17 AM


I hope I’m getting my point across to other people reading this thread very clearly.  Magento’s requirements are *not* exotic in any way.  Most, if not all, the PHP extensions are enabled by default, or are available by default in most Linux distros.  And lastly, PHP extensions are not to be considered complicated or exotic setups for any situation, it takes about 10 minutes to install any PHP extension on any system*.  Don’t be fooled.  If your sysadmin or hosts complains about installing any PHP extension, get a new sysadmin or host.

* (any system worth developing on)

His post doesn’t suggest that his problem has anything to do with missing an extension. The Magento installer clearly lets you know if an extension is missing or not. His problem is a problem many users on this forum are having. It’s the dreaded PDO error dump on step 3. I have also tried everything from using the DLL file suggested on this forum to uncommenting the PDO::MYSQL_ATTR_USE_BUFFERED_QUERY setting. I’ve increased memory limits, increased db execution times in the my.ini settings, etc. But I always get the PDO error dumb. I am not a sysadmin, I’m a developer.

However, I recognize that this is still beta and have faith that the magento team will address the installation problems in the next release

i think magento needs to make it clear about its target audience. its extremely geared towards developers. more than half of the people showing up on these forums couldn’t write a single line of php let alone understand anything about installing php extensions.

first things first, the link to that ‘fixed’ php_pdo_mysql. dll should NOT be hosted on some techno dance site. it just makes magento look bad. i understand this is a community effort but the string of professionalism shouldn’t be cut because of that.

secondly, of all the countless php/mysql apps i’ve installed on my local test server, magento is the ONLY one that has ever completely hiccuped and fallen flat on its face. even after i’ve finally configured my server to work with a previous version months and months ago, the latest build STILL has the same pdo error dump. as for magento being one of the first to follow a more ‘modern’ framework, well hmm i’m not exactly still running php4 here either. everyones local server setup is going to be much more liberal than any online host out there.

my last experience with zend framework was that i discovered its filled with a ton of useless junk that should never have made it into the core. just boxes within boxes. why would anyone ever need a config class to switch between ini and xml files? the only real benefit behind the framework is just the name behind it.

either way, at least headline-making products like magento are going to push some lazy hosts to start adopting php5. the initial hype was interesting but i’m definitely not going to bother with this product for quite a long time to come.

 
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Ross
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kameko.rouge - 18 January 2008 02:56 PM

coeus - 18 January 2008 10:10 AM


...His problem is a problem many users on this forum are having. It’s the dreaded PDO error dump on step 3…

...first things first, the link to that ‘fixed’ php_pdo_mysql. dll should NOT be hosted on some techno dance site...

Magento is developed and tested on Linux, and that is the recommended platform.  The “dreaded PDO error” relates to a DLL problem on Windows.  (The original poster was trying to install on *nix systems, so that obviously wasn’t his problem).

Anyone dowloading DLLs for Windows from random untrusted websites is being foolish, and I’m sure Magento wouldn’t recommend it.

It’s not hard to install Linux on your PC if you want to test Magento, so why use Windows!?

 
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coeus
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Ross - 19 January 2008 04:27 AM

Anyone dowloading DLLs for Windows from random untrusted websites is being foolish, and I’m sure Magento wouldn’t recommend it.

They have recommended it: http://www.magentocommerce.com/boards/viewthread/2337 (see reply #4 by Moshe)

Ross - 19 January 2008 04:27 AM

It’s not hard to install Linux on your PC if you want to test Magento, so why use Windows!?

I don’t think this is a reasonable request. It does in fact work on my Linux box, but you can’t expect people to install Linux just for the sake of installing magento. There are many reasons to use Windows, but let’s not turn this into a Linux vs Windows thread, I like them both for different reasons. I am sure Magento Team doesn’t want to lose their windows market so they would want to fix this bug.

 
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